Comments on: Under the bus, to throw http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/ Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:14:13 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Larry Lepthien http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-5282 Larry Lepthien Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:45:48 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-5282 This may be a bleedover fron the Trolley Problem --a thought experiment in ethics. See the Fat Man varient. This may be a bleedover fron the Trolley Problem –a thought experiment in ethics. See the Fat Man varient.

]]> By: Heather Bangert http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-4835 Heather Bangert Tue, 18 May 2010 16:35:31 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-4835 The first time I heard it was James saying it on Big Brother The first time I heard it was James saying it on Big Brother

]]> By: Laurie Marshall http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-4444 Laurie Marshall Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:28:25 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-4444 I agree with the person who wrote the article. Being thrown under a bus, taken literally, is exactly what the phrase means metaphorically. I agree with the person who wrote the article. Being thrown under a bus, taken literally, is exactly what the phrase means metaphorically.

]]> By: Gary http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-4020 Gary Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:37:06 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-4020 I don't remember ever hearing the phrase. I remember using it for the first time in 1999. I worked in auto finance for a bank. I bought contracts from car dealers who had a habit of presenting false information on a customer's form to make the customer look "better". Things like writing down a 3 year job when it was actually a 3 month job. I told a dealer that doing that kind of thing was like a Boy Scout who was helping the old lady across the street. Half way across he throws her under the bus. In other words, the false application from the car dealer was a lure of goodwill that resulted in bad faith and a credit denial for inaccurate information. I told a dealer "don't try to throw me under the bus on this one". I honestly don't remember the phrase before that although it was probably cooking in my sub conscience somewhere. I don’t remember ever hearing the phrase. I remember using it for the first time in 1999. I worked in auto finance for a bank. I bought contracts from car dealers who had a habit of presenting false information on a customer’s form to make the customer look “better”. Things like writing down a 3 year job when it was actually a 3 month job. I told a dealer that doing that kind of thing was like a Boy Scout who was helping the old lady across the street. Half way across he throws her under the bus. In other words, the false application from the car dealer was a lure of goodwill that resulted in bad faith and a credit denial for inaccurate information. I told a dealer “don’t try to throw me under the bus on this one”. I honestly don’t remember the phrase before that although it was probably cooking in my sub conscience somewhere.

]]> By: Rick http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-3998 Rick Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:56:21 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-3998 In a public agency, there are two scenarios I have seen the phrase consistently used for years. One is in reference to a consultant where the unfortunate firm or consultant project manager is sacrificed when the public servant, who is usually to blame for lack of planning or lack of knowing what they need, "throws the consultant under the bus" by deflecting blame on the consultant and thereby coating oneself with teflon. The other common scenario is within the agency's organization itself where, at levels from the Executive Director to a Manager, to preserve one's own image and perception of power, another is "thrown under bus" which can range from a public denouncement of another's views or work, to a dismissal from employment due to another's power base being threatened, or often the perception of it being threatened. By far the more common is the internal agency scenario. Ref: 30 years career public servant/executive and now 2 years consultant. In a public agency, there are two scenarios I have seen the phrase consistently used for years. One is in reference to a consultant where the unfortunate firm or consultant project manager is sacrificed when the public servant, who is usually to blame for lack of planning or lack of knowing what they need, “throws the consultant under the bus” by deflecting blame on the consultant and thereby coating oneself with teflon. The other common scenario is within the agency’s organization itself where, at levels from the Executive Director to a Manager, to preserve one’s own image and perception of power, another is “thrown under bus” which can range from a public denouncement of another’s views or work, to a dismissal from employment due to another’s power base being threatened, or often the perception of it being threatened. By far the more common is the internal agency scenario. Ref: 30 years career public servant/executive and now 2 years consultant.

]]> By: Jon http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-3617 Jon Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:12:27 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-3617 I had always just assumed the idea was that needed the bus to stop so he could board it, so he shoved someone else in front of it as an expedient way to bring it to a halt. That was strictly an assumption, though; I never looked into it. I had always just assumed the idea was that needed the bus to stop so he could board it, so he shoved someone else in front of it as an expedient way to bring it to a halt. That was strictly an assumption, though; I never looked into it.

]]> By: Damon Hobbs http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-3075 Damon Hobbs Mon, 19 Oct 2009 01:52:52 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-3075 The bus is mentioned in the book "From Good to Great". I never read the book but part of the philosophy is that the first priority is not where the bus is going but who is on it. It's been widely read. Maybe the saying has taken hold for different reasons one of which being because many people in the corporate world have a some exposure to this book and have witnessed co-workers (who might think they are CEO material) trying to stay on the bus at all costs even while throwing other co-workers even friends or former allies underneath. The bus is mentioned in the book “From Good to Great”. I never read the book but part of the philosophy is that the first priority is not where the bus is going but who is on it. It’s been widely read. Maybe the saying has taken hold for different reasons one of which being because many people in the corporate world have a some exposure to this book and have witnessed co-workers (who might think they are CEO material) trying to stay on the bus at all costs even while throwing other co-workers even friends or former allies underneath.

]]> By: John Wilson http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-3008 John Wilson Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:10:57 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-3008 They use this term in theater in Iraq, as in publically blaming someone for something in a meeting. They use this term in theater in Iraq, as in publically blaming someone for something in a meeting.

]]> By: jcp http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-2923 jcp Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:49:38 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-2923 The above sound to contrived to me. My theory is a lot less direct but I think more likely. By my memory, it wasn't uncommon to describe someone as looking like they were "hit by a bus." I always took this as a natural coinage for a depression or WWII era urban America. An alliterative variant used in "Guys and Dolls" is "Stabbed by a Studebaker." I had heard and used "hit by a bus" often and it never described physical distress, but instead the shocked and frazzled look people get when under emotional strain. For example, you might say a husband looked like he was hit by a bus when he found out his wife ran off with the milkman. It is not a big leap to go from being hit by a bus to being thrown in front of or under a bus. Of course being thrown "under" gives the image of the thrower moving forward or advancing without the throwee. The above sound to contrived to me. My theory is a lot less direct but I think more likely. By my memory, it wasn’t uncommon to describe someone as looking like they were “hit by a bus.” I always took this as a natural coinage for a depression or WWII era urban America. An alliterative variant used in “Guys and Dolls” is “Stabbed by a Studebaker.”
I had heard and used “hit by a bus” often and it never described physical distress, but instead the shocked and frazzled look people get when under emotional strain. For example, you might say a husband looked like he was hit by a bus when he found out his wife ran off with the milkman.
It is not a big leap to go from being hit by a bus to being thrown in front of or under a bus. Of course being thrown “under” gives the image of the thrower moving forward or advancing without the throwee.

]]> By: Craig Gull http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-1982 Craig Gull Sat, 16 May 2009 04:19:15 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-1982 Actually, I do believe that the term actually came from the earliest days of Greyhound where drivers would save themselves embarrasment by tossing contraband under the bus, while acting like they were simply throwing luggage in the storage area. Throwing it 'under the bus' was a term used for disposing of something that would get you fired if the boss was walking up. Many times, the management of Greyhound would send spot checkers from the office out to catch drivers with whiskey flasks or illegal 'uppers' or pills while operating the busses. The problem was that the spot inspectors would invariably come out from the lighted terminals, which the bus would always face directly at when first arriving. Seeing a spot inspector coming out of the building, a fast thinking driver would jump out of the bus, lean down to open a luggage bay while tossing his contraband literally under the bus, and start tossing bags out, or in as the moment called for. When the inspector would arrive, the driver would be searched, the bus and luggage bay would be inspected and the driver would get away clean. So, in a way... these drivers were forced to toss and old friend (their booze or pills) literally under the bus. Which is what people sometimes do to each other in order to save their skin for the moment. Actually, I do believe that the term actually came from the earliest days of Greyhound where drivers would save themselves embarrasment by tossing contraband under the bus, while acting like they were simply throwing luggage in the storage area.

Throwing it ‘under the bus’ was a term used for disposing of something that would get you fired if the boss was walking up.

Many times, the management of Greyhound would send spot checkers from the office out to catch drivers with whiskey flasks or illegal ‘uppers’ or pills while operating the busses.

The problem was that the spot inspectors would invariably come out from the lighted terminals, which the bus would always face directly at when first arriving.

Seeing a spot inspector coming out of the building, a fast thinking driver would jump out of the bus, lean down to open a luggage bay while tossing his contraband literally under the bus, and start tossing bags out, or in as the moment called for.

When the inspector would arrive, the driver would be searched, the bus and luggage bay would be inspected and the driver would get away clean.

So, in a way… these drivers were forced to toss and old friend (their booze or pills) literally under the bus. Which is what people sometimes do to each other in order to save their skin for the moment.

]]> By: Jay Schiavone http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-1806 Jay Schiavone Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:46:41 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-1806 I think the notion of "team bus" is significant in that the person being thrown under the bus is invariably close to the people doing the throwing. The scape goat has to be from one's own side of the issue in order to appease critics. It is hardly possible to throw one's opponent under the bus, given that betrayal is part and parcel of the process. Is it possible that the origin of the phrase refers to the storage compartment "under the bus" where luggage is usually stored? Probably not. That image would not seem to allow for betrayal or destruction, merely degradation. However, "throw it under the bus," coming from common usage in a tour or team bus-- once it is overheard by someone outside that milieu-- could easily become transmuted to the form with which we are now familiar. I think the notion of “team bus” is significant in that the person being thrown under the bus is invariably close to the people doing the throwing. The scape goat has to be from one’s own side of the issue in order to appease critics. It is hardly possible to throw one’s opponent under the bus, given that betrayal is part and parcel of the process. Is it possible that the origin of the phrase refers to the storage compartment “under the bus” where luggage is usually stored? Probably not. That image would not seem to allow for betrayal or destruction, merely degradation. However, “throw it under the bus,” coming from common usage in a tour or team bus– once it is overheard by someone outside that milieu– could easily become transmuted to the form with which we are now familiar.

]]> By: Sara Davis http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-1683 Sara Davis Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:19:29 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-1683 I agree with your opinion of the origin of this saying. I thought it might be related to an incident in Seattle (I was there moments after it happened), where a girl was "thrown under the bus" by her boyfriend/ex-boyfriend. Actually, she was pushed out the door and ended up under it. I agree with your opinion of the origin of this saying. I thought it might be related to an incident in Seattle (I was there moments after it happened), where a girl was “thrown under the bus” by her boyfriend/ex-boyfriend. Actually, she was pushed out the door and ended up under it.

]]> By: Kent http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-1289 Kent Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:35:41 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-1289 Somewhat like chaifilius's explanation, my interpretation, culled from contexts of usage I've heard, is essentially that one suddenly sees the bus about to hit one oneself; so one quickly reaches for and grabs someone else, nearby, and throws him instead under the bus. I don't mean that this is the origin of the phrase so much as I mean that this is my view of its present meaning. Somewhat like chaifilius’s explanation, my interpretation, culled from contexts of usage I’ve heard, is essentially that one suddenly sees the bus about to hit one oneself; so one quickly reaches for and grabs someone else, nearby, and throws him instead under the bus. I don’t mean that this is the origin of the phrase so much as I mean that this is my view of its present meaning.

]]> By: Coffee http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-285 Coffee Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:40:55 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-285 Throwing someone under the bus could help the vehicle gain traction in a slippery situation. This picture agrees well with the definition of someone being sacrificed. Throwing someone under the bus could help the vehicle gain traction in a slippery situation. This picture agrees well with the definition of someone being sacrificed.

]]> By: CFMitchell http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-201 CFMitchell Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:23:38 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-201 The phrase bears a strong resemblance to the expression "throw someone to the wolves" which connotes sacrificing a member of one's own group to a predator in an act of self(ish) defense. The phrase bears a strong resemblance to the expression “throw someone to the wolves” which connotes sacrificing a member of one’s own group to a predator in an act of self(ish) defense.

]]> By: chaifilius http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/comment-page-1/#comment-144 chaifilius Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:54:18 +0000 http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/under-the-bus-to-throw/#comment-144 My theory is related, but more abstract: The bus is an overbearing crisis, and throwing someone under it would cause it to crash, or at least slow down enough to escape it. Hence, Libby was thrown under the bus of the Plame scandal, which then came to a screeching halt. My theory is related, but more abstract: The bus is an overbearing crisis, and throwing someone under it would cause it to crash, or at least slow down enough to escape it. Hence, Libby was thrown under the bus of the Plame scandal, which then came to a screeching halt.

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